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 Bugs/Feedback Thread #XXX

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Lestat13



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PostSubject: Bugs/Feedback Thread #XXX   Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:13 am

I've spent quite a bit of time going over each class, and spec trying to find all the viable builds, and compare their merits. I've used recount, and number crunches to find the best healers, damage dealers, and done various duels and 2v2 PvP to pick out what classes worked and what didn't. I also noticed some bugs, so sit back and take a bit of a read.

One thing I noticed for pretty much all classes were a horrible abundance of talents that rely in critting. The thing is most classes walk around with 5%-9% crit making choosing almost any of these abilities mathematically terrible. Only classes that have Agility as their main stat might think about them with anywhere from 12%-17% crit, but it's still usually not a good option.

Additionally having 11 talent points, while the Tier 3 talents require exactly 11 points leads to many classes that have a critical talent in the Tier 1 section (Most every caster has a 50% mana regen while casting talent) of a particular tree meaning you either go that tree that has a critical tier 1 talent, or you miss out on your Tier 3 talent. I know the heavy investment to get your Tier 3 talents sounds engaging, but when I do decide to get a Tier 3 talent I feel like I'm scraping the bottom of that barrel for decent talents with not many choices. To rephrase: A hybrid build has 12 talents in Tier 1 to pick from, and potentially a select number of Tier 2 talents leading to 24 talents to consider. A build that gets the Tier 3 talent has 10 options to choose from, and you find yourself begrudgingly placing points into do-nothing talents just to get some hopefully OP Tier 3 skill.

If Tier 3 talents were locked to only one choice some other way, and 3-5 more talent points were added you'd have 10 points in your main tree to consider with 8 other Tier 1 talents to potentially pick up too, leading to more choice.

Warrior
Very lackluster, even with bugged abilities (Deep Wounds, and Flurry proccing on all attacks) it does mediocre damage. Your only real damaging attacks are Rend, Thunder Clap (mostly for out-of-range application of Deep Wounds, which is mostly just a bug), and Overpower. I tried two hand builds, dual wield builds, but they were both a wash. I noticed that each tree was missing their core attacks. If Warriors had access to Bloodthirst, Mortal Strike, or Shield Slam it would go a long way. It's very important to note that this class is not on par with others even with it's bugged abilities, a substantial buff would be desired.


Paladin
This is a good class. It does good damage, can wear mail, buff other people, and heal. It has limited mana though so making a pure healer is not ideal, but they're nice all around.


Warlock
This was a less impressive class. It does mediocre damage as either Affliction, Demonology, or Destruction. It has some nice tools through Fear, Succubus, and Fel Hunter, but once someone is on you it's difficult to survive.


Druid
This was a mixed bag. I felt like most classes were either good or bad, but this one made for a good healer. You can have very good mana regen through Dreamstate, and Intensity, but with Innervate it's a bit overkill. You can shapeshift around and annoyingly apply HoTs and DoTs while running away in Travel Form, and do good work. Straight up Feral however is mediocre. The damage is low, and you aren't playing to the good healing of the class. Same goes for Balance DPS. I think it's actually a good spec for PvP healers as you get Insect Swarm, and Treants (Which are noted to be broken right now), but you don't get the tools to deal actual good damage.


Mage
Not impressed with any of their specs. Their damage is low, most classes can get around their ability to kite, naturally they're unable to heal. I think if they had the option to Ice Block they'd be a bit better, you find youself dead with your Blink on cooldown usually, and this would let them reset the cooldown for their mobility/CC tools.


Hunter
A great class. It has good damage, and kiting potential, and can use it's pet to initiate fights from extreme distance.


Priest
Another mixed bag class. It has nice healing efficiency with Flash Heal, and various mana regen abilities. It has limited potential to increase it's DPS as any spec however, leading to DPS totals that don't shift much from 0 talent points. I find that most good classes have use for their points, and other classes struggle to find anything of use. It can play the same kind of game a Druid healer can by DoTing, and HoTing/Applying shields. I'd judge it worse overall than the Druid, but not by too much, could use a boost.


Shaman
This class feels like a worse Paladin. Enhancement can do some okay damage using Frost Shock trinket (which does not cause other Shocks to go on cooldown, while your other shocks do cause Frost Shock trinket to go on cooldown) (If this is fixed it would just leave a greater want for a buff), and either melee DPSing as either Duel Wield, or 2H, but it has less damage, less healing, less CC than your average Paladin.


Rogue
I'd say this is one of the worst classes. The damage is low, and there is no ability to heal. It feels like the same problem mages have where bad damage, and okay CC isn't enough. If powerful enough poisons were implemented it'd be a simple solution to the damage problem.


Death Knight
Even after the nerfs the DK is solid. It has great damage, and great CC, like a more aggressive Paladin.

I know that it can be at times difficult to really believe a list of classes with simple 'It's shit', or 'It's good', but for the most part the classes I noted as good had multiple players using to good effect, and the classes I noted as bad typically had a lot of unsatisfied players rerolling to something better. There might be some potential builds I missed, but I did my best not to skip out on anything, hybrid or not.



As a bonus are just a small number of objective issues I noticed:

Alliance mall has no ammo, and Horde mall has no Soul Shards.
Balance Tree has Eclipse, but druids can't get Starfire.
Rogue's Assassination tree has Deadly Brew even though rogues can't get any types of poisons at level 19.
My Human Male Hunter had no Gun skill.
My Human Male Druid had no One Handed Mace skill.


I hope this helped get a sense of how, at least I, view the classes currently.
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xxxmkdxxx



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PostSubject: Re: Bugs/Feedback Thread #XXX   Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:04 pm

Heard humors about DKs that after using all resources(runes) they are unable to cast spells or so.
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Ky
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PostSubject: Re: Bugs/Feedback Thread #XXX   Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:02 pm

First of all, I just want to say that this is the kind of feedback every developer dreams of getting. All your input is spot-on and phenomenal, and I want to do two things with it.

1. I'm going to respond to your post regarding things I've already considered and my plans to fix them, so that both your concerns and my ideas are available publicly.

2. I'd like to set up a time where we can chat before I overhaul the talents so we can go into more specifics about each of the classes and their decisions. Anybody else is welcome to join and I'll be posting the time once you and I figure out a time that works for both of us. Expect a PM.

---

Crits

The abundance of talents relying on critting is more of an issue with gear which I'm currently in the process of revamping. I expect players to get up to almost 25% crit with the basic gear if they choose to itemize for it, which will make a LOT more specializations viable. Your concern is valid, but I'd wait for the gear overhaul to determine whether or not it needs to be changed.

Mana Regen Issues

This may prove to be an issue, but it's something that I believe will be fixed by correct itemization options (aka the gear overhaul). Gear will have unique mana regeneration outlets that minimize these issues, as well as providing options for casters to have a very large mana pool so they don't need to rely on talents to get their mana in a good place. Once again, we definitely need to revisit this if the gear doesn't solve the issues.

T3 Talents

The talent overhaul is basically going to be doing what you're describing: making sure you're not putting points in "dead talents". I think it's important to get a lot of feedback about each of the specs to make sure that each talent feels like a viable (if only in niche builds) option. I think this will be a work in progress as the server continues to evolve, and I'll want to make sure I get a ton of feedback for when I start fixing bugged talents and refining the trees.

Class Specifics:

Warrior:
- Trying to avoid giving access to upper level talent abilities since that's when things stop feeling twink. My current thoughts to solve these issues are:
- Arms - thought they were in a good place, open to suggestions
Fury - adding Titan's Grip as a T2 talent after fixing the crit bugs, also adding Slam as spell trinket
Prot - adding Shield Slam/Intervene as spell trinkets

Paladin:
- Seems pretty good to me too, I think it has a bunch of fun multispec options as well

Warlock:
- New itemization is going to help locks A LOT by providing them with extra armor and a big stam pool. Also considering adding Howl of Terror and a minified version of Death Coil (3 sec horrify -> 1 sec) to combat their issues with peeling.

Druid:
- Feral: Thinking of changing the spell trinket's active for Cat Form to whatever their version of Ambush is so they have good burst, possibly adding another Cat/Bear Form ability as a trinket. New itemization will give this spec a lot more flexibility.
- Balance: Definitely adding Starfire as trinket.

Mage:
- Having access to a high crit chance or haste will completely reshape the class I think. Considering adding Arcane Blast as a spell trinket to supplement the arcane tree.

Hunter:
- Agreed. Although beast mastery is a little boring at the moment, going to be adding custom pet talent trees to make Exotic Beast Mastery a worthwhile talent.

Priest:
- I think Priest is actually in a pretty good place, Shadow will hurt a lot with access to crit and hit, Holy has a lot of utility, and Disc will be very good place once it has a good mana pool in conjunction with teammates. Will revisit in the future if they lag behind.

Shaman:
- Definitely going to fix Frost Shock. Elemental will benefit massively from new itemization, and I'm going to add Windfury Weapon spell trinket to make 2H enhance viable. Resto MAY eventually need Riptide to be worth it, but a lot of people have said Shamans are very good so I want to be careful.

Rogue:
- Considering adding poisons but giving access to only of them at a time. They're the trickiest to balance honestly I'd rather them stay a little underpowered given their massive utility and how well they fare in arenas and bgs. Deadly Brew will obviously allow Assassination rogues to have 2 poisons on application, in that case.

DK:
- I think the nerfs put them in a really good place too.

Thanks again, so very much for laying this all out! Adding Hunter/Druid missing skills to bug list.



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Lestat13



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PostSubject: Re: Bugs/Feedback Thread #XXX   Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:24 pm

What's the plan for gear? There's Tier .25 on the test realm, is that outdated? Is that the new starter gear, or is that for after the starter gear?

There are some seriously misplaced numbers here and there on a few items, so if it's not going to be used then that's fine, but if I can know if it's going to be used I can comb over it.
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xxxmkdxxx



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PostSubject: Re: Bugs/Feedback Thread #XXX   Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:15 pm

.25 Tier will be released within the Beta test version.
The uncommon/starter/trash gear will be replaced with .25

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